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Venn Diagram #2: “Neo-Swing”

January 2, 2012

NOTE: (added 2:30 a.m. 1/2/12) I promise this is not just a cheap shot. Recently I did a video-interview with Josh Callazo, the incredible drummer of the Jonathan Stout Orchestra. The clip, which I will put up in a few days, coincidentally helps explain part of the joke above and how it’s actually something that I think is very important about swing. But more on that soon.

Also, I should probably clarify that I do not put modern jazz bands (Jonathan Stout, Boilermakers, Glenn Crytzer, etc.) in the category of “Neo-Swing.”

NOTE: (added 1:07 p.m. 1/27/12)

NOTE: Recently I published an interview with swing drummer Josh Callazo. This interview with Josh proved a great opportunity to explain the Venn Diagram joke and how it’s actually something that is interesting and important about swing (to me, at least).

When I think of “Neo-swing” bands, I immediately think of the names Cherry Poppin’ Daddies, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, The Brian Setzer Orchestra, and Atomic Fireballs. Many of these were once-rock and ska bands who apparently learned everything they wanted to know about swing rhythm from the drum roll in “Sing, sing, sing.” (Note the common trend: start off with “sing, sing, sing”-like roll, then go into rock drumming when the song kicks-in. Repeat.) But these bands never mastered (or perhaps attempted to) the true swung rhythm, and I think watching Josh’s interview is a great quick way to start to understand the difference.

Even the “Neo-swing” music that was very well-written—most of which, in my opinion, was produced by artists like Indigo Swing— never had anything close to the kind of rhythm you would get from Gene Krupa, Chick Webb, or the Basie rhythm section, and other masters of swing rhythm. So, though there was some good pop music in Neo-swing, it was still “bad” swing because it rarely ever swung. Or, at least, wasn’t actually “swing” music by, some would argue, the most important definition of it.

Probably the biggest exception to this, in my opinion, are the Squirrel Nut Zippers. The vaguely “old timey” group plays with many different rhythms, some of which swing really nicely. However, what is ironic is that their most poplar and danced-to song in the Neo-swing era was “Hell,” a Latin-inspired rhythm. Also, Neo-Swing purists might debate whether SNZ was actually a Neo-swing band, or more just a novelty jazz band who happened to hit at the same time as the Neo-swing acts.

Now, there are other factors as well that help even good neo-swing bands fall into a “bad” category, like one-dimensional orchestration, uninspired musicianship, or all those cliches of two-tones, zoot suits, and martinis. (Very few neo-swing songs ever got around to actually saying much. Lester Young said more in a phrase with a saxophone than the Neo-swing bands said all together with instruments and the English language combined.) Basically, if you’re going to label it swing in a genre that includes Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Count Basie, Fats Waller, Benny Goodman, and Chick Webb, it’s going to have to live up to a lot to be considered good.

By the way, I’ve seen Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Cherry Poppin Daddies, Brian Setzer and Squirrel Nut Zippers in concert. SNZ were exceptional, I seem to recall.

[unedited]

21 Comments leave one →
  1. Bobby permalink*
    January 2, 2012 3:37 am

    So, I hate ruining a joke by explaining it, but I should probably clarify that I do not put modern jazz bands (Jonathan Stout, Boilermakers, Glenn Crytzer, etc.) in the category of “Neo-Swing.”

  2. January 2, 2012 3:39 am

    So, good neo-swing is a subset of bad neo-swing. I agree completely.

    • January 2, 2012 3:45 am

      it makes no sense to me, because that’s not how you indicate there is no good neo-swing if that’s what is intended.

      • Bobby permalink*
        January 2, 2012 7:42 am

        Hey Greg,

        I added a note that I thought would better describe my intent in making the joke.

        Bobby

        • Bobby permalink*
          January 2, 2012 11:10 pm

          I wrote a long note, then edited it down to what is there now. I understand if it doesn’t explain anything at all. But, um, I will explain my intent soon. I promise.

  3. sylvia permalink
    January 2, 2012 10:32 am

    The “good neo-swing” area seems larger than it should be…

    • Bobby permalink*
      January 2, 2012 5:25 pm

      Several people have said this, and I have debated about it and agreed, especially if you don’t count Squirrel Nut Zippers as Neo-swing.

      But I have updated the diagram.

  4. January 2, 2012 6:24 pm

    We are not smug because we hate neo-swing, WE ARE ELITE!!

    I hate to say it, but it’s really true.

    • Bobby permalink*
      January 2, 2012 11:09 pm

      hahahahahaha. Yeah, Firefly.

  5. January 3, 2012 4:25 am

    Hmm, two possible interpretations:
    a) neo-swing is sometimes so bad that it’s good? (like an Ed Wood movie?); or
    b) “good” and “bad” for neo-swing aren’t incompatible – even the good stuff shares the “bad” characteristics. All neo-swing is bad but some is good in addition. Rises above its roots and reaches danceability, listenability, good compositional structure or players’ virtuosity (whatever you want to judge music by) but can’t hide the fact it is also “bad” (which might be defined against any criteria you want, so long as its not exactly the same as those for “good”).

    I’m guessing you mean b)…

  6. January 3, 2012 5:19 am

    death star

    • Jason Platt permalink
      January 27, 2012 8:08 pm

      That’s no moon; that’s a battle station!

  7. January 3, 2012 4:31 pm

    Neo Swing rarely has a swing beat to it

    • Bobby permalink*
      January 5, 2012 6:47 pm

      [touches one index finger to nose and points with other]

  8. January 27, 2012 9:47 pm

    So if swing music without a swing beat is by definition bad swing music, is swing dancing to music without a swing beat bad swing dancing?

  9. January 30, 2012 4:53 pm

    I’m happy you carved out a little exception for SNZ. Some of the members of SNZ still play good swing music here in North Carolina. :)

    • February 18, 2012 9:30 am

      Oh YES! Firecracker Jazz Band!!!! And Katharine Whalen’s album ‘Jazz Squad’ is really nice. The rest of those neo bands are rubbish. There are so many good modern bands, it’s not worth hanging onto bands just for 90s swing nostalgia’s sake.

  10. February 10, 2012 1:13 pm

    With all due respect, this is a bad Venn diagram. Good music should not be a subset of bad music. They are both subsets of music.

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  1. Posts in Order of Publication « Swungover*
  2. Josh Collazo on swing drumming « Swungover*

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